patriotism, allegiance, and war

another posting that comes from the message board that i read called 'emerging theology'.

there is a series of postings discussing among other things patriotism, allegiance, and war. what this series of conversations has done for me is to realize that not all americans are 'bushy'. many are thoughtful and courageous. the other thing is that the message board is stocked with contributors from other countries as well.

below i am copying one of the posts that first got my attention. if anyone is interested in reading the others go to emerging_theology : Message: Re: Penalty for killing as revenge:- Accidents, Tragedies, Diseases
i don't know how long these will be on the net. this is the reason for including what follows:

Re: Penalty for killing as revenge:- Accidents, Tragedies, Diseases

This is kind of setting the cat among the pigeons, about questions that are unanswerable. People die from heat exhaustion, because of - well - the heat and dehydration coupled with lack of sodium. There cannot be any sense of divine retribution, if that where you're heading. We don't know what the consequences are as far as Israel-Lebanon, or the Coalition occupation in Iraq, or 9/11. God has put - delegated - into the hands of national leaders the ability to wield the sword (Rom. 13:4).

For now, no matter how much we disagree or protest, we are only doing so from the sidelines, unless we get our hands dirty and join in the political process and machinery. For many of us, discretion is the better part of valor,and it is our choice to not get so embroiled. We do know - and this may sound like a cop-out - that God will judge in the end; that the rightness of the wars in the larger balance of history will make itself clear; that in many lives things in the end will work out for good, particularly if they're Christians; that repentance will be necessary and required of all sides.

It is difficult to comment on another regime. In Pakistan, for instances whole sections of the population live on £30 (about $50) a month. The military and the police are heavily funded (even though the police feel that they have to extract money from the public in traffic violations, to supplement their income). In many ways like many other nationsin thatt regions, there is a level of repression and what may seem like craziness (the heat,perhaps?), but unless you are committed to the welfare of the nation, or have a strong assurance of having a prophetic word, it is quite difficult to have valid place to speak.

This is not a "Shut up, you guys. You don't know what you're talking about". Rather, opinions about the Long War, the War in Iraq often end up as hot air witha bunchh of aggravation and discord among brothers. Many in the UK fought like catsand dogssover thee rightness of the War in Iraq, was it right for a nation to unilaterally to subvert the authority of another nation-state by enforcing regime change without other nations feeling that they could do the same? shouldn't we rather support the work ofthe UNN as the main international arbiter with all its flaws, in the name of peace? Also, we don't know what we're talking about. Advocates of both sides of, say, the War in Iraq, had elements of right on their side. Saddam Hussein was an evil man, even though Madeleine Albright once called him 'our kind of guy'. Yet how many other 'evilmen' who suppress the human rights of their citizens do the West do business with?

Regime change: what's that about? We will never really know the answers to this questionor Israell. Advocates of democracy for nations such as Iraq, must concurrently call for greater democracy in their own countries. We have to insist on more democracy than once(inthe formm of a cross) every four or five years. We need an intelligent electorate,who knowhow too pick a guy who makes the decisions. We need to know what the issues are.

Sorry about the long posting; I certainly didn't intend to lecture. I feel like it's many postings in one. Heat exhaustion(?!), war and informed opinions. These are issues that I'm passionate about. We must talk, yes, but also get involved.